3 might. Item level 70. – Red and yellow gems requirement is not an issue since we, rogues, care mostly about damage, this requirement is pretty easy as you will use mostly red (Agility &. Best Gems for Beast Mastery Hunter DPS - PvP Arena Season 7. Blue Gem — Stormy Majestic Zircon. 2195. Class. 5 sec cast . relentless: 150000*0,03=4500-->relentless is 2,9 times better dmg conclusion: As the previous poster stated the relentless earthstorm diamond gets better when dmg and crit increases. I would not recommend this meta for a ret paladin. 1869. Now, assuming you only have 1 beneficial blue socket in your items (more than likely), you can now socket a different gem, for example, +16 crit, as opposed to needing the +8 crit +12 stam gem (this is pre-epic gems. Nightmare Tear. An item from World of Warcraft: The Burning Crusade. Ideally, you will have two helms and swap between the two, but if you have to choose one – Relentless Earthsiege Diamond is the preferred choice. It is sold by NPCs. Critical Strike Rating Critical Strike Rating is a good stat for Death Knights that increases the chance that attacks will be critical strikes. As good as that sounds, critical strike rating is point-for-point one of the weaker stats for rogues. ZZOLD Design: Relentless Earthsiege Diamond,提供最好的中文版魔兽世界80级数据库,WLK巫妖王之怒数据库,分类最好的wow database,魔兽世界3. Это 30 Редкий самоцвет 0-го ур. Since you can only equip it if you have 350 leatherworking, this chestpiece. Red Gem — Delicate Cardinal Ruby; Yellow Gem — Mystic King's Amber; Blue Gem — Shifting Dreadstone. Login or register to be the first to upload a screenshot. 1 Charge. "Only. Some talents and effects like Lethality and Relentless Earthsiege Diamond can increase critical strike damage even further. " This is a level 80 blue meta gem. Contribute. Mystic Dragon's Eye. Link. Arcanum of Torment. With these combined correctly, you will be able to maximize your performance and get a guaranteed raid spot. New in patch 2. Earthstorm Diamond. Binds when picked up. Max. Know your enemy to avoid death. " Sell Price: 6: Additional Information. " Sell Price: 6. Requires Reagent: Earthsiege Diamond (1) Spell Details . Just. I do understand the bit of dodge considering the up close nature. It is crafted. Requires at least 1 red gem. It is crafted. Meta – Persistent Earthsiege Diamond or Relentless Earthsiege Diamond In all phases, these will be your two choices. Requires at least 1 blue gem. If you are blood or frost spec, then go with relentless earthsiege, reason for the 10 stat gem. Welcome to Wowhead's PvP Arena Season 8 Best in Slot Gear list for Protection Warrior Tank in Wrath of the Lich King Classic. Commentaire de Jickles If you're 100% min/maxing this is superior to the 21 crit meta in almost all pve dps situations. Warriors debatable. I replaced this with Chaotic Skyflare Diamond and my DPS has returned. My DPS dropped from an average of 2400 to 2200. Lucent Ametrine. Relentless Earthsiege Diamond +21 Agility & 3% Increased Critical Damage: Relentless Earthsiege Diamond +21 Agility & 3% Increased Critical Damage: Glyphs. " Sell Price: 6. relentless: 150000*0,03=4500-->relentless is 2,9 times better dmg conclusion: As the previous poster stated the relentless earthstorm diamond gets better when dmg and crit increases. To. This adds up to . . Relentless Earthsiege Diamond Rare Gem Overview Crafting Item Overview Tooltip. 3, probably rendering this point moot. This adds up to . Item Level 80. This adds up to . +12 Agility and 3% Increased Critical Damage. Relentless Earthstorm Diamond. Wouldn't the Chaotic Skyflare Diamond (crit instead of agilty) be more worthwhile for enhancement shamans than this one? Yes, you lose 21-23 AP from the loss of agilty, but you are getting both. Item Level 30. My DPS dropped from an average of 2400 to 2200. 457% crit, unaffected by kings. Only fits in a meta gem slot. Relentless Earthsiege Diamond. Viable. In the Meta Gems category. Patch Phase 4 WotLK Classic Arena Season 8. I ran into this problem. This adds up to . relentless: 150000*0,03=4500-->relentless is 2,9 times better dmg conclusion: As the previous poster stated the relentless earthstorm diamond gets better when dmg and crit increases. Besides your gear and talents, there are 3 additional ways you as a player can increase your character’s power: gems, enchants, and consumables, which make your character significantly more powerful when combined correctly. This jewelcrafting design is used for the Jewelcrafting profession. Valorous Redemption Helm. Last Updated November 18, 2023. This item is made by Alchemists with a skill level of 350. It is sold by NPCs. relentless: 150000*0,03=4500-->relentless is 2,9 times better dmg conclusion: As the previous poster stated the relentless earthstorm diamond gets better when dmg and crit increases. View in 3D Links. As good as that sounds, critical strike rating is point-for-point one of the weaker stats for rogues. Created By (1) Can Be Placed In (2) Comments (0) Screenshots (0) Name Reagents ;With Mortal Shots and Relentless Earthsiege diamond boosting crit damage, Serpent Sting will be able to critically strike for 133% damage. Resplendent Ametrine. Meta Socket - Relentless Earthsiege Diamond Red Socket - Lucent Ametrine Blue Socket - Stormy Majestic Zircon Yellow Socket - Mystic King's Amber and Mystic Dragon's Eye Gemming in Season 7 is built mainly around spell penetration, resilience, and agility. Representation. i seemingly have the appropriate gems equipped (more blue than red), yet for the life of me, i'm unable to get it to work! i thought that maybe the gem itself was bugged, so i bought a chaotic shadowspirit, which does have the same requirement, but of course it resulted in the same problem. Phase 3 introduces epic gems from prospecting Titanium Ore. Relentless Earthstorm Diamond. "Only fits in a meta gem slot. Class. Live PTR. 1781. Arcanum of. All other options are uncompetitive. Blue Gem — Stormy Majestic Zircon. Persistent Earthsiege Diamond 10%; 45% Stun Duration Reduction. 5G左右的在卖 (卖NPC是6G)技能满了以后一个都别做 X Tireless Skyflare Diamond 25法伤 奔跑加速 同上 X Invigorating Earthsiege Diamond 42攻强 暴击有几率回血 X Thundering Skyflare Diamond 有几率增加近战和远程攻击速度 X Trenchant Earthsiege Diamond 25法伤 减少眩晕10% ***** 现在. Besides your gear and talents, there are 3 additional ways you as a player can increase your character’s power: gems, enchants, and consumables, which make your character significantly more powerful when combined correctly. Meaning it will only be equippable in certain head slot items and it will grant a special bonus if a number of required gems are socketed into. Information; Sell for: 3. I got this on my Hunter yesterday and absolutely love it! I put the Relentless Earthsiege Diamond on it and used a Nightmare Tear to activate the socket bonus. +12 Agility & 3% Increased Critical Damage. 5 PTR. Item Level 70 . Bright Cardinal Ruby. Meta Socket - Relentless Earthsiege Diamond Red Socket - Lucent Ametrine Blue Socket - Stormy Majestic Zircon Yellow Socket - Mystic King's Amber and Mystic Dragon's Eye Gemming in Season 8 is built mainly around spell penetration, resilience, and agility. (relentless earthsiege) 21 crit rating from this socket is equal to . 10. Many guilds and raid groups may not invite you at all if you don. (relentless earthsiege) 21 crit rating from this socket is equal to . ZZOLD Design: Relentless Earthsiege Diamond - Item - World of Warcraft. Second, your only other real alternative is basically the same thing, but it requires 2 blue gems. Meta Socket - Relentless Earthsiege Diamond Red Sockets - Lucent Ametrine Strongest Blue Socket Bonus - Nightmare Tear All Other Sockets - Mystic Dragon's Eye / Mystic King's Amber As mentioned at the start of this guide, the best gemming strategy for Feral PvP in WotLK is. Relentless Earthsiege Diamond. Tripoint Geological Services is a Canadian based geological consulting company that provides services and support for mineral exploration programs, from grassroots to. relentless: 150000*0,03=4500-->relentless is 2,9 times better dmg conclusion: As the previous poster stated the relentless earthstorm diamond gets better when dmg and crit increases. Relentless Earthsiege Diamond +21 Agility and 3% Increased Critical Effect 3 red gems required I thought that it would be good to say this since not everything is up. ; Finally, Relentless Earthsiege. Bold Cardinal Ruby. You can activate this meta with a single Nightmare Tear. Combat Rogue Guide for WoW WotLK Classic PvP. Insightful Earthsiege Diamond gives us 315 mana Beaming Earthsiege Diamond gives 2% mana pool increase for that 2% extra mana to equal the int from insightful you would need a mana pool of 15750 prob an around average amount of mana for a priest/pally. Binds when picked up . View undefined undefined undefined from The Burning Crusade Classic. Powerful Earthsiege Diamond +32 Stamina and + 10% Stun Duration Reduction: 3 blue: Relentless Earthsiege Diamond +21 Agility and 3% Increased Critical Damage: 1 red, 1 yellow, 1 blue: Revitalizing Skyflare Diamond +11 Mana every 5 seconds and 3% Increased Critical Healing Effect: 2 red: Swift Skyflare Diamond +42 Attack Power and Minor Run. Relentless Earthsiege Diamond Item Level 30 +4,000 Agility and 3% Increased Critical Effect "Only fits in a meta gem slot. Requires at least 1 yellow gem. To wrap things up here are some suggestions for the Glyphs you should use. 2386. 1886. You will still need to have a Blue Gem somewhere in your gear to ensure that you activate your Meta Gem, either Relentless Earthsiege. 1) Put a Relentless Earthsiege Diamond in your meta-socket. Talents, Builds & Glyphs. It kept trying to put a yellow or orange gem in my gear. With gems, you mainly focus on Resilience. This adds up to . Relentless Earthsiege Diamond is the best dps meta gem, but you need to make sure its bonus is activated. 45% for Chaotic vs 0. These gems have special requirements that must be met for the gem's bonus to activate. Mystic Dragon's Eye. 评论来自 jcseely I've been out of the game for awhile. Relentless Earthsiege Diamond . 5 % Durable Ametrine. Gems. Meta Socket - Relentless Earthsiege Diamond Red Socket - one Pristine Ametrine and Empowered Ametrine; Blue Socket - Stormy Majestic Zircon Yellow Socket - Mystic King's Amber In Season 7 PvP, you will still want to focus on getting as much Resilience as. This website uses cookies to ensure you get the best experience on our website. Now, assuming you only have 1 beneficial blue socket in your items (more than likely), you can now socket a different gem, for example, +16 crit, as opposed to needing the +8 crit +12 stam gem (this is pre-epic gems. 6%!). Relentless Earthsiege Diamond Relentless Earthsiege Diamond +21 Agility and 3% Increased Critical Damage Requires at least 1 red gem Requires at least 1 yellow gem. 2 - that change being that the 3% increased critical damage no longer applies to spells. After this, you must utilize the gems that keep your hit rating and expertise consistent. Transmute: Earthstorm Diamond . Best Arms Warrior Enchants. +4,000 Agility and 3% Increased Critical Effect. Relentless Earthstorm Diamond. Kel'Thuzad - Naxxramas. Last Updated November 18, 2023. 1770. Fury Warrior Guide for WoW WotLK Classic PvP. Class. It is sold by Fedryen Swiftspear. These bonuses combined add up to a significant margin of difference btwn the 2 gem setups, sealing Relentless Earthsiege Diamond as the winner. Information from maxdps stated this meta was the choice. Relentless Gladiator's Pendant of Victory. Yellow: Vivid Forest Emerald / Vivid Eye of Zul – only for a good socket bonus. Stormy Majestic Zircon. Matching gem sockets is usually the correct strategy as many socket bonuses are geared towards stats that you want, but. Select. Comment by sinizuh Unlike other transmutes, these metagem transmutes are at a 2 day (48 hour cooldown). 2228. This guide will list best in slot gear for Unholy Death Knight DPS in Wrath of the Lich King Classic Phase 3. +12 Agility & 3% Increased Critical Damage. "Only fits in a meta gem slot. Best in Slot (BiS) & Pre-Raid Gear. In the Jewelcrafting Designs category. Relentless Earthsiege Diamond (21 Agility + 3% Crit Damage) Blue. Once these are taken care of, you can focus on getting Attack Power and Haste. This transmute has had cooldowns in the past but was completely removed in Patch 3. I usually have my PvE Retribution and tank specs enabled. 5) Put a Deadly Ametrine in every yellow socket whose socket bonus is 4 Agi or more per. Quick King's Amber. Expertise, Hit, and Agility. This is a level 80 blue meta gem. This is possibly the best DPS gem available for cat form feral druids. Any way of improving your overall CRIT and CRIT DAMAGE is preferable. Information from maxdps stated this meta was the choice. Return to board index. From where to learn to make Relentless Earthstorm Diamond, World of Warcraft The Burning Crusade ClassicFrom where to get Jewelcrafting Design for +12 Agilit. This jewelcrafting design is used for the Jewelcrafting profession. Wouldn't the Chaotic Skyflare Diamond (crit instead of agilty) be more worthwhile for enhancement shamans than this one? Yes, you lose 21-23 AP from the loss of agilty, but you are getting both. Just un-equip the items with the Nightmare tear in and the Meta, log out, log back in; and all should be working fine. Information from maxdps stated this meta was the choice. Design: Relentless Earthsiege Diamond. 0. An item from World of Warcraft: Wrath of the Lich King. 200. The only time you should deviate from this after hit cap. It is cut from an Earthstorm Diamond that can be created by Alchemist using either a Philosophers Stone or an Alchemist stone (based on a 24 hour cooldown). Source: Vendor: Anuur Zone: Icecrown Cost: 5 Vendor: Tiffany Cartier Zone: Dalaran Cost: 5. Best Fury Warrior WotLK PvP Build, Talents, Stat Priority, Trinkets, BiS gear, etc. Helm of the Grave. Aimed Shot, Steady Shot, Multi-Shot -- but currently there is an issue by which it is not increasing the critical damage of Arcane Shot. It should be noted that gems which match. +21 Agility and 3% Increased Critical Damage. Wouldn't the Chaotic Skyflare Diamond (crit instead of agilty) be more worthwhile for enhancement shamans than this one? Yes, you lose 21-23 AP from the loss of agilty, but you are getting both. Relentless Earthstorm Diamond. 1 % Rings. I got this on my Hunter yesterday and absolutely love it! I put the Relentless Earthsiege Diamond on it and used a Nightmare Tear to activate the socket bonus. " Sell Price: 6 Source This item is created with Jewelcrafting (420);. , ranked by their performance and popularity based on the World Top PvP Players in WotLK Classic Arena Season 8. This adds up to . "Only fits in a meta gem slot. Contribute. 4 % Legs. One [Nightmare Tear], for example, is enough to activate your [Relentless Earthsiege Diamond]. Consumables. Meta Socket - Relentless Earthsiege Diamond Red Socket - Bold Scarlet Ruby Blue Socket - Enchanted Tear Yellow Socket - Etched Monarch Topaz or Inscribed Monarch Topaz You want one Enchanted Tear to fulfill either a blue or yellow slot depending on what gives the best. Whereas destructive skyfire diamond gets its buff only from damage. However, its activation condition requires 2 Blue gems, which will ultimately make it slightly worse than Relentless Earthsiege Diamond. Stat Priority. DKs, warriors and paladins will easily make up the crit. A single prismatic gem (Enchanted Tear/Nightmare Tear/Enchanted Pearl) is enough to activate Relentless Earthsiege Diamond, that's why DK uses it over Chaotic Skyflare, it allows you to gem an extra Bold Scarlet Ruby. Insightful Earthsiege Diamond gives us 315 mana Beaming Earthsiege Diamond gives 2% mana pool increase for that 2% extra mana to equal the int from insightful you would need a mana pool of 15750 prob an around average amount of mana for a priest/pally. "Only fits in a meta. Items, NPCs, Quests. +21 Agility and 3% Increased Critical Damage. " Sold By (1)Relentless Earthsiege Diamond . 10. My DPS dropped from an average of 2400 to 2200. 27% for Relentless), and also applying to your spell attacks, such as Icy Touch, as it gives crit rating rather than agility, which only boosts your physical crit. Fury using Relentless Earthsiege Diamond will have roughly ~12 more strength than Chaotic Skyflare Diamond or the option to get in 10 more ArP at the loss of the rough equivalent of ~4 crit rating. Re: Relentless Earthsiege Diamond. Requires at least 1 blue gem. Everything in World of Warcraft game. 9 Critical Strike Rating = 1% increased chance to critical strike. The increased critical damage bonus granted by the Relentless Earthstorm Diamond does, indeed, affect ranged attacks -- e. Red Gem — Bright Cardinal Ruby; Yellow Gem — Mystic King's Amber; Blue Gem — Balanced Dreadstone. Best Gems for Enhancement Shaman DPS - PvP Arena Season 7. Subtlety Rogue PvP Guide. Class. However, you can use Chaotic Skyflare Diamond as an alternative. Required Skill . Relentless Earthsiege Diamond. Think we can call that one a draw (of course 2% mana will scale better with bigger mana pools)As a retribution paladin I was using Relentless Earthsiege Diamond originally. When I would lock that gem to be a bold scarlet ruby it would just move the yellow or orange gem to a different slot. Information from maxdps stated this meta was the choice. Related. Slap in two Delicate Cardinal Ruby and maybe a Deft Ametrine to activate Relentless Earthsiege Diamond and you've got yourself a real winner. Lucent Ametrine. This gem will be your strongest option for the meta slot by a long shot. To navigate between guide sections use the top dropdown or buttons in. Think we can call that one a draw (of course 2% mana will scale better with bigger mana pools)New in patch 2. 10. 457% crit, unaffected by kings. Arcanum of Torment. Nightmare Tear Relentless Earthsiege Diamond. This is a level 80 blue meta gem. Reason isn't because I believe agility is better than crit rating, because it isn't. Steady Eye of Zul. You can also transmute them with Alchemy or buy them with emblems. It is crafted. Meta Socket - Relentless Earthsiege Diamond Red Socket - Lucent Ametrine Blue Socket - Stormy Majestic Zircon Yellow Socket - Mystic King's Amber and Mystic Dragon's Eye Gemming in Season 7 is built mainly around spell penetration, resilience, and agility. Just everything in Wrath of the Lich King game version. Relentless Earthsiege Diamond +21 Agility and 3% Increased Critical Effect 3 red gems required I thought that it would be good to say this since not everything is up to date here. I replaced this with Chaotic Skyflare Diamond and my DPS has returned. Talents, Glyphs, Poisons and rotation. It is crafted. 0. 4. The design requires Exalted reputation with the Consortium. This is the best meta gem that you can use, especially since it only requires one blue gem to activate. For example, the preferred meta gem for a Retribution paladin is the Relentless Earthsiege Diamond. There will be several glyphs listed for each spec. Relentless Earthsiege Diamond. 2. The effect of both meta gems is the same, the difference is 21 Agi vs 21 crit strike. If, however, reducing stunned time is more important for you than armor, there is another version of this gem, Powerful Earthsiege Diamond, that gives you the same stamina but -10% time stunned instead of +2% armor. Bold Dragon's Eye. This guide covers all the essential parts of character optimization needed to maximize your PvP performance in Rated Arenas & RBGs as Enhancement Shaman. If you ever see some at around 25 a piece, pick up as many as you can and cut them into this. 1944. But the requirements allow you to gain better stats. "Only fits in a meta gem slot. Darkmoon Card: Proc: Heroism Sometimes heals bearer of 120 to 180 damage when damaging an enemy in melee. The Earthsiege Diamond is used by Jewelcrafters to make various cut gems. 91 crit rating = 1% crit 62. Now, assuming you only have 1 beneficial blue socket in your items (more than likely), you can now socket a different gem, for example, +16 crit, as opposed to needing the +8 crit +12 stam gem (this is pre-epic gems. Durable Ametrine. Occasionally I will switch to PvE. An item from World of Warcraft: The Burning Crusade. 460 . Relentless Earthsiege Diamond is by far the best option for your Meta Gem, as it gives a considerable amount of crit, increases the damage dealt by your critical strikes by 3%, and is easily activated by Nightmare Tear. " Sell Price: 3. The stun reduction meta is a good defensive option against the likes of Rogues, but Relentless Earthsiege Diamond provides you a lot more burst pressure due to increased Crit damage. This guide covers all the essential parts of character optimization needed to maximize your PvP. Rigid King's Amber is the best Yellow Gem if you need help towards the Hit cap,. 4). And yes it only took a couple days to farm the Triumph badges on the Dungeon Finder Tool. Whereas destructive skyfire diamond gets its buff only from damage. Design: Relentless Earthsiege Diamond . Meta Gem ကိုေတာ့ Relentless Earthsiege Diamond သံုးပါမယ္။ Pally Newbies ေတြအတြက္ပဲ ရည္ရြယ္လို႕ Pally Pro ၾကီးေတြကေတာ့ တလြဲေတြဆိုျပီး ေျပာရင္လဲ ခံရမွာပါပဲ။The only one I found kind of viable was the one healing you, but still far inferior to relentless earthsiege. Insightful Earthsiege Diamond. Max. Information from maxdps stated this meta was the choice. After that, Agi/Stam or Str/Stam, I'm not sure. +12 Agility and 3% Increased Critical Damage. Relentless Earthsiege Diamond. 3796% crit. To navigate between guide sections use the top dropdown or buttons in the bottom. Think we can call that one a draw (of course 2% mana will scale better with bigger mana pools)Meta gems match meta sockets. Earthsiege Diamond. Weapon Selection and Specialization. If you ever see some at around 25 a piece, pick up as many as you can and cut them into this pattern. (relentless earthsiege) 21 crit rating from this socket is equal to . Best Gems for Feral DPS Druids. If only it was Agility instead of Attack Power since I'm SV, but it'll work. Jewelcrafting. Best Gems for Enhancement Shaman DPS - PvP Arena Season 6. 1934. These gems are bind on pickup, and can only be used by Jewelcrafters . Let’s illustrate this with phase 3 gear and Relentless Earthstorm Diamond (Requires at least 2 Yellow, 2 blue, and 2 Red gems). ShadowPanther. May 20, 2021. Last Updated November 18, 2023. Besides your gear and talents, there. So effectively having 5/5 Axes with Relentless Earthsiege Diamond you have a raw +8% Crit Damage. Matching gem sockets is usually the correct strategy as many socket bonuses are geared towards stats that you want, but. Relentless Gladiator's Chain Spaulders. Relentless Earthsieges generally sell for a minimum of 50g on peak nights (Tuesday-Thursday), and if you catch the market right you can easily make back what you paid for. In the Meta Gems category. In the Jewelcrafting Designs category. Meta Socket - Chaotic Skyflare Diamond Red Socket - Bold Cardinal Ruby Blue Socket - One Nightmare Tear and then Sovereign Dreadstone when you can get a good socket bonus; Yellow Socket - Etched Ametrine or Rigid King's Amber if you need hit, otherwise Resplendent. +21 Agility and 3% Increased Critical Damage. In the Jewelcrafting Designs category. 2001. In this guide, you will learn about playing a Beast Mastery Hunter in the arena or a battleground. (relentless earthsiege) 21 crit rating from this socket is equal to . 1 % Legionnaire's Gorget. 2014. 457% crit, unaffected by kings. Whereas destructive skyfire diamond gets its buff only from damage. Nevermore. 457% crit, unaffected by kings. Since 3. Blue gems have Stamina and Yellow gems have Hit. If you are blood or frost spec, then go with relentless earthsiege, reason for the 10 stat gem. net (EU) Wowhead Thottbot WoWDB Insightful Earthsiege Diamond gives us 315 mana Beaming Earthsiege Diamond gives 2% mana pool increase for that 2% extra mana to equal the int from insightful you would need a mana pool of 15750 prob an around average amount of mana for a priest/pally. 33% crit CSD: 21 crit rating = 0. Contribute. Red: Nightmare Tear / Shifting Twilight Opal / Shifting Dreadstone – only for a good socket bonus. Best Gems for Retribution Paladin DPS - PvP Arena Season 7. Enigmatic Skyflare Diamond. 1) our scaling with Agi is slightly better than with crit due to Blessing of Kings and 2) because only needing 1 blue socket is overall better. Insightful Earthsiege Diamond gives us 315 mana Beaming Earthsiege Diamond gives 2% mana pool increase for that 2% extra mana to equal the int from insightful you would need a mana pool of 15750 prob an around average amount of mana for a priest/pally. Everything in World of Warcraft game. Relentless Earthsiege Diamond +21 Agility and 3% Increased Critical Effect 3 red gems required I thought that it would be good to say this since not everything is up. 11% EU Quantity (Avg). That holds you back on half a red gem. Now, assuming you only have 1 beneficial blue socket in your items (more than likely), you can now socket a different gem, for example, +16 crit, as opposed to needing the +8 crit +12 stam gem (this is pre-epic gems.